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The Providence of Freedom

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Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.15 22:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Butter Dog on 15/03/2010 22:30:10 Providence under CVA was simply a collection of stagnated, worthless alliances who wanted nothing more than a 'sansha hunt for free' pass. It was a homogenous forced standings enclave of puppet regimes. It was as predictable as it was dull. New Providence will be far more dynamic, and allow people to access 0.0 space under their own terms and initiative. Ambitious corporations and alliances across New Eden will surely rejoice at the news they no longer have to subserviently bow down to arrogant CVA overlords in order to gain their own space. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.15 23:10:00 - [2] Garreck, CVA gave permission for LFA to launch an assault into AAA space. There is no more to it than that. We all know that Providence is a collection of vassal states, and the odd puppet leader - indeed the friction between LFA and CVA was a direct result of you attempting to tell them what leader to install. And you were successful in installing a pupper leader in AM, for all the good it did them. It's a simple truth that CVA wanted to build an 'empire', propped up by slave states who had to ask CVA's permission to so much as urinate in Providence. UK have no such ambition, we only seek to guard against the abomination of slavery. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.15 23:28:00 - [3] This is simply incorrect - the ability for an entity to truly manage it's own affairs, including diplomatic relations, will certainly attract more ambitious corporations and alliances who can truly be called 'independent'. Yes, attacking a powerbloc will probably result in a very bad outcome for them, but that is just common sense. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.16 09:30:00 - [4] Originally by: Xina Tutor Hehe... we were a threat to -A- sov... Damn. Well, you wont be by the end of the week ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.16 09:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Archbishop So you admit you will engage in "Warfare Enclosurement" and restrict the warfare of those residing "freely" in Providence? You should be careful in readily admitting to do something the Ushra'Khan and others have so vocally claimed to oppose. Do we have an Ushra'Khan representative here who can comment on the "enclosurist" plans of -A- and their admitted policy of forcing a rule on others? Archbishop You're deliberately missing the point. Do you honestly think that any one of the New Providence entities will be able to territorially assault AAA and survive? The rule does not need to be written - it is basic common sense. Attacking a member of perhaps the most powerful bloc in New Eden isn't good for your health. That my friend is a simple fact. Or are you proposing that if one of these entities assaults AAA space, they should be allowed to get on with it, without anyone fighting back? Don't be so ridiculous. Of course they are going to get crushed - if you act with such rash stupidity, you deserve the appropriate response. You also conveniently ignore one of the key benefits - that AAA and UK will protect Providence from unwanted territorial invasion. This means these new entities will be quite safe by 0.0 standards. They will have their independence, yet also be able to turn to us should the worst happen and their space be invaded by an outside entity. We're not going to hold their hands if a roaming gang passes through, but I think we'd rather enjoy crushing invasion attempts, for example by CVA or slaver-aligned forces. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.16 11:51:00 - [6] Slavery will, unfortunately, never truly die. There will always be those vile enough to support it, promote it even, and the ill concieved economic 'benefits' they feel it brings. UK shall always remain as the guardians against slavery. Without our watchful eyes, who knows what foul deeds would be committed. We've saved millions from their plight, and if that is because we are against something, then so be it. However, you're also wrong when you claim we don't want to build something. We do. A universe free from slavery and those who support it. But even if such a goal were to be obtained, we would have to remain ever vigilant to prevent the descent into horror that is (or was) CVA's Providence regime. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.16 15:37:00 - [7] I think you will find most entities enjoy the larger scale battles which accompany sov warfare. We spend time building up the shiny toys (titans, supercarriers, dreads) to be able to use them for just this purpose. The only time Sov warfare is dull, is when it is not contested and becomes a grind. But an active attempt by CVA to reclaim sov will certainly not be dull. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.16 16:35:00 - [8] Originally by: Syyl'ara An activity you state is widely found to be enjoyable (why is warfare and the suffering of millions a leisure activity to some?) yet you openly declare the intention of denying this "recreational activity" to those who will be installed in the future. This is incorrect. It's just basic common sense that a Providence entity won't be able to territorially assault the member of a powerful coalition and expect to survive. They have no hope of succeeding in a territorial war against the Southern Coaltion. This is not anyone 'controlling' anything, it is basic and simple fact. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.16 17:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Syyl'ara What I do take issue with is the chest beating over your supposed morality and the attempts to sell what you're doing as a "noble" crusade. Some noble causes are being claimed in the midst of this, but not at nearly the same rate as territorial control. We will have to agree to disagree that the removal of a regime supported by slavery is not a 'noble cause'. Also, you don't seem to understand the restrictions CVA placed on their holders. They were puppet states. Entities moving to New Providence are under no such leash. They are entirely free to manage their own affairs, including diplomatic relations. If they wanted to set AAA red and roam to HED, so be it. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.16 18:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Syyl'ara Being given space, told what you may or may not do with it, and having those expectations backed by threat of expulsion from the entity that installed you is the very definition of being under a leash. They will be able to do whatever they wish. If they were just having an arguement with a neighbour, I doubt we'd get involved. The only reason they would ever be removed is if they threatened UK or AAA sovereignty. But that applies to all of our enemies, it's fairly standard practice for an alliance who has invested in it's space to be protective of it. In short, they would be free to do whatever they wished. It's very unlikely they would wish to assault a member of the Southern Coalition territorially, because it would be pure suicide. But they can still try it if they want, and face the inevitable consequences. That is the very definition of freedom of choice. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.17 08:19:00 - [11] Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/03/2010 08:20:30 New Providence residents will be completely free to behave as they wish. What exactly are CVA and their pets claiming they are not free to do? "oh but but but... they if try to assault AAA or UK territorially they will be pushed out of Providence in a counter-attack, this makes them a slave!!!" Er, no. They're free to act as they wish, in the full knowledge that certain actions have natural consequences. They have infinately more freedom to act than any holder ever did under CVA. That is a simple, undeniable fact. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.17 09:56:00 - [12] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Originally by: Butter Dog New Providence residents will be completely free to behave as they wish. What if a new providence resident begins to engage in the slave trade? Will they be evicted? They are welcome to make whatever decisions they wish. They will of course understand what the consequences will be. We won't tell them not to do anything - they should be intelligent enough to work out the consequences of engaging in the slave trade themselves. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.17 16:38:00 - [13] 'Freedom' means 'Freedom for all', not 'Freedom for people to keep slaves'. And yes, I'm quite sure we would act immediately to remove any entity who supported slavery. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.17 21:20:00 - [14] I think I can state with some confidence that anyone who aids slavers will be considered a valid target. We must do all we can to ensure the promotion of freedom - that is, freedom for ALL our people. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.18 17:23:00 - [15] U'K welcome pilots who have seen the error of their ways, and wish to prove this by turning their guns onto CVA and their pets. Many of our finest pilots, such as Lord Makk, are ex Providence pilots who have saw for themselves the horror of being part of CVA's powerbloc. Now, go back to your ~wolfpax~ and leave the revelant entites in this conflict to discuss matters on Galnet. There's a good chap.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.18 21:29:00 - [16] I've flown with and for UK longer than you, Conlin. I was there fighting off hostile gangs when the first POS were laid down to claim sovereignty in 9UY. I know where UK have come from. The difference between you and I, is that I'm not stuck in the past. I appreciate the past, but I don't let it hold the alliance back. UK is a major participant in a war to remove CVA. Many doubted this would ever happen - and yet, it's happening. You chose to cut and run because you were asked to support their removal. Don't dare to lecture anyone else on being 'true' or 'loyal', when your own record of fighting for the cause is lying in tatters.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.19 10:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Conlin At least I have my reputation & the respect of my former enemies , thats a lot more than you,or the mess you've made of U'K's roleplaying reputation . The only reputation you have is of someone who cut and run when you had a real chance of helping remove CVA. You call that being loyal? You think that helps UK realise it's goals? Of course it doesn't, any fool can see you just wanted to persue your own selfish agenda. The moment you had to align yourself to UK's true goals, instead of just killing lone sansha hunters whenever you felt like it, you ran away faster than your legs could carry you. What kind of reputation is that? Not one any self respecting pilot in UK would wish to have. I'm not sure what you mean by "roleplaying reputation", but I'd rather UK achieved it's goals of removing CVA from Providence than engage in pointless Galnet pleasantries with our sworn enemies. At the end of the day, I and those like me helped shape UK into the force it is today, allies and all, killing CVA and removing her allies from Providence. I understood UK's goals, and how we can realise them - no thanks to you. You persued your own selfish agenda, and if people like you were a the helm of UK we'd still be in Curse acheiveing nothing.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.19 10:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Xina Tutor Certainly we have all seen a very different UK of late. One that is without a real purpose and mission. Yes because removing your terrible alliance from Providence definately wasn't our purpose or mission ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.19 12:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Xina Tutor And now? You can only hope that CVA will continue the fight I suppose. Without CVA, the UK mission is... hmm... So you're saying that CVA and her allies have given up, will never try to reclaim Providence, and will not continue the fight at all? Well, if that is the case, we shall simply bask in the glory of your death. Will keep us occupied for long enough. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.20 19:03:00 - [20] I don't give a toss about 11B and certainly have nothing against you. What I objected to was the way you came on Galnet shouting 'look at me!' and telling blatent lies after you decided to leave. It was undignified, and completely unnecessary. You accused UK of not being true to her ideals at a time we're removing CVA from Providence. The stupidity of it all was breathtaking. If you had not have done that, we wouldn't have had to call you irrelevant, or lacking in bigger picture understanding. Most of UK feel the way I've expressed in my posts to you, and the reason for that is the childish and frankly pathetic manner in which you decided to leave. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.21 08:50:00 - [21] Yes, killing our mortal enemy and removing them from Providence is destroying our credibility Honestly, I couldn't give a toss what you or anyone else thinks of our credibility. I care about two things: Killing CVA, and making UK a strong and capable alliance. If I hurt a few peoples feelings on Galnet along the way, forgive me for not caring in the slightest. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.21 13:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Scarlette Derion If by 'strong and capable', you mean 'Bloated with useless cannon fodder' and 'follows -a-'s lead', then yes, the current UK is strong and capable. Although I'd say many provipet alliances also felt that quantity was better than quality, and look where that ended up Funnily enough, that isn't what I meant. But of course you knew that. By 'strong and capable' I mean able to do more than just roaming and killing sansha hunters. Also, being 'strong and capable' is a goal, as I don't believe we're nearly there yet. But it is a worthy goal, and the UK of today is stronger than it has ever been. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc

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